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Mirror Tool

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43 comments

  • Michael Gauthier

    Really don't understand why there is no mirror tool.

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  • Georg Schlenk

    As this tool is really important and not provided in free DS, it's missing seems to be meant as a strong incentiv to buy spaceclaim.

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  • Paulo Oliveira

    That's a great incentive to make me angry. I have already asked for more than once there in the feature request, but so far nothing. It must be even intentional, because even the scaling tool, which can sometimes be used for mirroring (negative scale) does not work as expected.

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  • Alex Kazimsky

    Yes, VERY NEED opportunity or tool for mirror object !!!!

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  • David Petschulat

    It's not that obvious, but do this to mirror:

    1. make a copy of desired object(s) and select them

    2. "Flip" them

    3. Rotate them 180 degrees

    If they wind up on the wrong layers from what you expect, you can "Swap" their layers.

    Put this all together and you have mirrored objects. I just did it, and I'm happy as a clam.

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  • Kristian Penno

    How does one "Flip" an object?

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  • Michael Gauthier

    No amount of manipulation seems to result in a true mirror with complex 3d objects. 

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  • David Petschulat

    How to "Flip" an object? I just selected several traces and right-clicked on them and "Flip" showed up on the popup menu. Clicked it.

    I can't vouch for how this handles "complex 3D objects" although shows my boards themselves render nicely in 3D views.

    I've been as vexed as the rest of you, so I was pretty happy when I realized that flip + rotate = mirror for my circuit boards.

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  • Kristian Penno

    I don't sup[pose you could post a screen shot of that pop-up menu with Flip on it?

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  • jane leog

    In the sketch mode, it is possible to make a mirror. 

    First draw a construction line in the sketch group, select the construction line and right click, choose 'set as a mirror line'. 

    Then, draw line or circle, or others you want, you will see the mirror in the other side the of the construction line.

    Try it.

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  • B.Brincken

    "I selected several traces and right-clicked on them and "Flip" showed up on the popup menu."

    This does not work (any more?) in DSM 4 or 5.

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  • Paulo Oliveira

    I leave designspark since this. Using Fusion 360 now. Its much better

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  • B.Brincken

    Can't confirm. I spent quite some time with Fusion and found it often cumbersome, while carrying numerous artefacts of other or older CAD software.

    Designspark is much more elegant and - after working through the learning curve and the sometimes misleading docs - effective.
    But, the lack of a mirror function, among some glitches and lacking docs, leaves it as a mere demo for Spaceclaim.

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  • tab...

    Searching within DSM help pages for 'FLIP'

    'Flip' is quite a common word.

    These are some of the results - i can't find any that actually mean 'mirroring' of faces or parts etc.

     

     

    I agree constructing a mirrored part is more work than just commanding it so - but it's not impossible and in many cases, really quite simple. OK, you got me...i wouldn't like to model a pair of car headlights or a human hand ! But for symmetry ( one, two or many planes) - DSM has some tools and abilities.

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  • B.Brincken

    Yes, once you know that there is no mirror tool you might start with a mirror construction right away.
    But just by bravely following the tutorials and reading the docs you can't know that - you have to stumble over the lack of the tool that is described in the docs, and (hopefully) be enlighted by this thread.

    Then again, for designs with several iterations, like mine, having to carefully place the mirror plane for each step is not effective; and not why you started with CAD in the first place, instead of building a prototype with wood and sand paper.

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  • tab...

    Any information within DSM help, indicating/ implying a 'Mirror' function for faces / parts etc isn't very helpful for anyone.

    If you find any, please bring it to forum or support directly.

    To my knowledge, DSM has never had such a function. Help pages are constantly being updated /revised - can't say they were always 100% correct and can't, even with V5 help, confirm 100% compliance.

    If you'd like some of my input 'How to make a mirror, ' the 'knife and fork' kind - post up a typical part. Can't promise success mind you but you're welcome to what i know.

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  • B.Brincken

    Ok, my mistake, I had the 'Mirror' in my head from the Spaceclaim feature list.

    In DSM, there seems to be only one small artefact of this history left:
    http://help.spaceclaim.com/dsm/5.0/en/Content/Advanced_options.htm?SearchType=Stem&Highlight=mirror|mirror|mirror

    'Enable left hand mirror transforms'

     

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  • tab...

    Thanks - i think that, ' Help' page comment 'Enable left hand mirror transforms: Mirrored components will be left hand transforms of the original model, and not contain the true, mirrored geometry. Drawing sheets and downstream applications will see the original model, not the transformed component.' might not be fully redundant.

    DSM has the ability ( with data Exchange module ) to import step files and treat them as native DSM ( err, i think), perhaps the caveats above, might still then apply ( e.g 'drawing sheets and downstream applications' ) and thus need some inclusion in the 'help' - but that's a guess only. I could also easily believe, a mirrored pair in a step translation, wouldn't keep any mirroring association upon importing. I could also 'Pray to any Almightly Lord' listening that such an import would keep the association.

     

     

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  • B.Brincken

    Anyhow, the option does not show up in (my) DSM 5 settings form.

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  • tab...

    I truly wish for a part / face ( anything ) proper Mirror function.

    Anything is possible with DSM but complicated , multi compound angled faces take too long to construct into a mirrored part.This took about 6 hours - a small time compared to the original design creation, but still too long.

    Upside...learnt much about line and point projection or creation  and pulling same into lines /surfaces. As an exercise. Quite positive - not so scary now :)

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  • B.Brincken

    Someone proposed to export the model to STL, mirror it in another program and re-import into DSM.

    Just tested that - mirror in Meshmixer (free) works fine, opening that in DSM as well.

    If that works out well for CAM of mechanical parts is another question.

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  • Rick Ales

    To mirror a construction line in sketch view:

    1.  Draw LIne

    2.  Copy and paste

    3.  Switch view to head on, for example if plan view is X-Y plane, select Z.

    4.  Move/Rotate the copy about the mirror axis 180

    5.  Switch to plan view

    6. Move/Rotate the copy 180

     

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  • tab...

    Rick.

    This topic has been recently updated.

    Setting a line to mirror on in a sketch can produce bodies that have symmetry or a mirrored body - it's not perfect, takes some time to do.

    https://designspark.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015306893-Mirroring-Faces-and-Objects-to-make-Symmetric-or-Mirrored-bodies-in-DesignSpark-Mechanical-Operation-and-Examples-

     

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  • B.Brincken

    Great to hear there is a "developer's own upgrade path" - I just applied for the trial.

    The mirror function IMHO makes much sense for DSM because it encourages a 'hands-on' approach to design (BTW the only one working for me). If one is used to think in classical technical sketches, where you have all steps for the final part already in your head - s/he would likely use another CAD-CAM software in the first place.
    So if you have constructed a part over various changes and iterations and need a mirror - the quickest path is to cut your part in pieces, copy and re-arrange them. Not really elegant given that there already is a mathematical (vector) representation in the software, where a mirror algorithm should be not too complex to implement.

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  • tab...

    Hi B. Brincken...it's been a little while.

    'The' or 'A' mirror tool has been on the 'wish list' for a few years now. It's been officially noted as 'Planned'... i wonder whether it will be the existing spaceclaim full mirror tool - have to wait and see.

    For those who can output a step file ( exchange module needed ), i know of Freecad that will produce a mirror and give you a step file back for importing.

    However, there's nothing like the 'on-the-fly' mirror capability to have.

    Do you not think symmetry is a nice tool ? If using it in sketch to create the profile - why not have the benefit of it in 3D - easily deleted or modified and there's so many symmetric bits in real life products.

    I agree DSM is very easy to do whatever almost at anytime.

    In looking at Youtube at Spaceclaim Mirror tool, it seems to be working like a symmetry tool in many of the examples i.e it needs a mirror plane - in the article above i referenced, a mirrored body can be moved 'off mirror plane' and it's existing faces altered, duplicating on both L-R bodies. I don't know what the limitations are for current Spaceclaim - the youtube video isn't particularly informative. Also, i'd use another 'copy' of the tap and not a mirror - it's not a great 'real world' example.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TsMyMIJTzY

    Cheers and regards.

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  • tab...

    Hi B Brincken,

    Something IMPORTANT - you can't have DSM and Spaceclaim ( or Discovery Live) on the same pc ! - only possible way is to have a Virtual machine on the pc and run SC on that.

     

    Sorry - i just remembered that and...umm, the upgrade path is DSM > SPACECLAIM, not just the mirror tool. You probably know that now.

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  • B.Brincken

    Ok, I'll backup my rsdoc files before I look at SC :-)
    I tried to understand the relation between DSM and Spaceclaim before .. and never really succeeded.
    It would be great to have a comparison chart somewhere.

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  • tab...

    Hi B. Brincken.

    I'm not going to claim i have everything but here's my personal view on the major differences.

    Yes there are differences as to be expected as DesignSpark Mechanical + Drawing and Exchange (bundle) Module = circa £786.59 +VAT, ( updates free when available ) whereas Discovery Spaceclaim is approx £ 5k +VAT to buy ( + updates cost) or approx £1k / year rent ( updates inc.)
     
    I want to start of by saying that many many pieces of software suffer from users only knowing or using a very small subset of all it's capability. The full gamut just isn't required.
    So perhaps it could be said that for 'moderate aspirational users / companies' it's possible DSM would fit very well to get started. 
    So with DSM, certain * Professional Features* are missing - if you're sensitive to time pressures and needing key area's of expertise like with Sheet metal parts or the using of 'scan data' to make / import / create working parts from or the importing of other native 'professional CAD' files ( Creo / NX / Solidworks etc) and perhaps to, where files may need some form of repairs, then Spaceclaim is recommended.
     
    So key things ( and subtle ) Spaceclaim has, that DSM ( with all modules ) does not.
     
    Dedicated Sheet Metal functionality -( seems to be a SC strong aspect - always being evolved ) basic sheet metal parts can still be designed in DSM using the standard functionality - it's slower for sure . I've made my own data base of custom louvres , depressions, hex / square holes etc. About 1 in 50 of my design parts use a simple sheet metal part.
    Dedicated Repair functionality - rarely do I have the need to import from other sources. DSM Step translator is good and the same as Spaceclaim. With NO auto repair tools included with the Exchange Bundle, If you take in .stp files from poor sources, there may be trouble. DSM can /will highlight problem area's after a 'Geometry Check' with zoom functionality and so far, I have been able to sort the problem out manually. DSM with complicated 3D will occasionally ( especially if working with tricky edges and projections) give edge problems - something i'm getting used to with DSM. Adding some gifs to show what can be done with DSM below - these were Solidworks copies off Youtube as a challenge.
    Groups Functionality - I'd like to have, certainly for repeated sets of faces spanning over a couple of different bodies, some ' grouping ability would be quite beneficial, but there are many fast tools to dynamically group whatever you desire with standard functionality - so i suppose it depends upon how much 'shuffling ( aka 'faffing') around is usual.
    Assembly (Relations) - I'd like to have but there are many easy fast tools to manipulate / position whatever you desire with standard functionality. I *assume* the assembly relations allow body movement only in permitted ways. Working with the Interference checker, i find that sufficient as i don't design many 'moving part mechanisms'.
    Mirror Tool I'm writing up a review currently on this. DSM does a good job with some workarounds but the SC tool is faster. I use the mirror function as a symmetric capability. DSM V6 (?) - better 'Mirror' functionality is planned.
    Hole Tool - I have special data base Import tools in DSM that helps here but the hole tool would be faster.
    Block Scripting - Could be very important to have some form of 'History' capability. When designs get broken down e.g. Bodies >Faces>Curves , working becomes more intricate and complicated, a good history is much easier than undoing / redoing and all that remembering... It's unknown if DSM will inherit this new ~ish but recently evolving technology. What's also unknown is the 'ease of use' i.e. the ability to interogate the block scripting record and make changes.
    Surface Tweaking - I'd like to be honest
    Facets ( seems to be a SC strong aspect - always being evolved ) (Meshing Tools / Manipulation ~smoothing etc. the making into Nurb / ordinary CAD faces) - increasingly a vital capability but they're other bureaus supplying that service if needed.
     
    Other small points i've noticed ( no doubt many i've missed - sorry)
    Drawing Module. DSM does not have the Configuration ability meaning the ability to have a concurrent fixed in-place assembly design AND an exploded view simultaneously shown. DSM does not have drawing user 'custom'symbols.
     
    That's about it - hope this helps...

    If i needed a more expansive CAD tool, whilst still being a small business but having the business justification, i'd rent SC.

    Other CAD like Solidworks, Creo, Solidedge, NX, Catia are all more powerfull, more users, more capable etc. absolutely no doubt by a long way. However, i most of all appreciate the ease of use, dragging ( especially in sections) and not having to use a 'history tree' - where i can have a 'good idea' ( or afford a few bad ones! ) and change everything in less mouse clicks than others.

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  • B.Brincken

    Great, thanks.
    Leaves the question, if SC has a user community similar to the one demonstrated here. 

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  • tab...

    Well, 2 years ago enquired about getting SC via Ansys, who passed me onto a UK VAR ( analysis experts), they said support was only available via their forum - so i assume as the people on that would possibly be more 'at it' earning a living, rather than hanging out in forums, also ( for me) it might not be terrifically good with the vast majority being FEM experts rather than CAD modelling jockeys.

    I remember that the trial period ( 1 month ) also included access rights to the forum.

    If downloading from Ansys themselves - I think access to their forum would also be included.

     

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